Public have 'patriotic duty' to come forward with information, says tribunal chairman

The judge said that the legal system existed to serve the country, and there was "a patriotic duty on anybody in the country who knows anything to come forward”.

The tribunal is looking at allegations that senior gardaí were smearing whistleblower Sgt Maurice McCabe to politicians, journalists and others.

Journalist Alison O'Reilly told the tribunal that she stood by her evidence yesterday that she was told by her colleague Debbie McCann that Sgt McCabe was a "child abuser".

Ms O'Reilly said she was not saying that Ms McCann had "briefed" her, or had given her a negative briefing about Sgt McCabe.

Mr Justice Charleton said that "simply discussing a matter is different to a negative briefing", and that he was not taking from Ms O'Reilly's evidence that there was "some kind of malicious intent" in any conversations Ms McCann had with Ms O'Reilly.

Hugh Mohan SC, for Debbie McCann and for Associated Newspapers, publishers of the Irish Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday, said that Ms McCann would deny that she had confirmed any allegations with her father, a retired garda superintendent, or saying that Supt David Taylor told her "the girl was in a bad way".

"I stand over everything I said," Ms O'Reilly said. "Debbie McCann has had my statement for the last year and this is the first I am hearing of it."

Mr Mohan said that Ms McCann did not meet with Miss D about allegations she had made against Sgt McCabe. Ms O'Reilly said she agreed that it appeared that did not happen, but it was what she had been told by Ms McCann.

"All I can do is tell you what she said, and I stand over what she said, I have a very clear recollection and nobody else told me that story," Ms O'Reilly said.

Mr Mohan said that Ms McCann would also deny getting information from former garda commissioner, Nóirín O'Sullivan.

Ms O'Reilly said it took her a long time to come forward to the tribunal.

"I don't expect anybody in the Mail On Sunday to support me. I'm up here on my own," Ms O'Reilly said.

Ms O'Reilly said she had been honest and open about the fact she had issues with her employer, and was pursuing legal actions.

Yesterday Ms O'Reilly told the tribunal that she had several conversations with Ms McCann about the penalty points scandal. She testified Ms McCann had penalty points quashed and was concerned her own name would appear in a newspaper, as her father was a senior garda.

Mr Mohan said today that Ms McCann had penalty points quashed after she was clocked going 5km over a speed limit by an automated camera.

Mr Mohan said Ms McCann wrote to her local garda superintendent saying she was just a little over the limit, and if she had been stopped by a guard, then that guard would likely have used his discretion in the case.

Micheál P O'Higgins, representing An Garda Síochána, said that Ms McCann's father, retired superintendent John McCann, said in a statement he had no knowledge of any investigations except what was in in media reports.

Ms O'Sullivan also said she did not give any information to Ms McCann or give an "off the record" briefing, Mr O'Higgins said.

"I can only tell you what Debbie McCann told me, and I've recalled those conversations to the best of my knowledge," Ms O'Reilly said.

Sunday Times journalist Justine McCarthy said that she was never negatively briefed about Sgt McCabe by Supt David Taylor, or by Martin Callinan or Ms O'Sullivan, or by any garda.

Ms McCarthy was questioned about a February 2017 article she wrote in which she said that journalists should "name and shame" anyone who had given negative briefings.

Ms McCarthy later said in correspondence to the tribunal that the obligation to protect a source fell “if a journalist's source knowingly conveys false information for the purpose of damaging somebody's reputation”.

Ms McCarthy said that when another journalist told her about abuse allegations concerning Sgt McCabe she "was stopped in my tracks by what he told me. I was horrified”.

"I can't remember specific words but the impression I came away with was that Sgt McCabe had been accused of sexually abusing a child and the issue had not been concluded," Ms McCarthy said.

Ms McCarthy said she investigated further, and learned that "not only had the DPP decided not to prosecute but the DPP had decided no offence had been disclosed”.

Ms McCarthy said that when she learned that John McGuinness TD had met with Mr Callinan in a Dublin hotel car park, she attempted to find out what was said at the meeting, but was unable to do so.

Journalist and academic Colum Kenny said that there was always a danger of journalists being "captured by their sources”, and there was "a reluctance to bite the hand that feeds them."

Mr Kenny said that the Garda Press Office would not be regarded as a confidential source.

"You don't really expect something extremely significant to be handed out by the garda press office," Mr Kenny said.

Mr Kenny said that background briefings could have a chilling effect, as a journalist would learn something they could not use, but they could not ignore it either.

Journalists had an obligation to consider the motivations of their sources, and "you have to use your instinct as a journalist to decide whether somebody is a good source”, Mr Kenny said.

The tribunal continues this afternoon.