Disclosures Tribunal hears claims that Martin Callinan referred to whistleblowers as headbangers
The former Garda Commissioner twice referred to Maurice McCabe as a kiddie-fiddler and a child abuser, the Disclosures Tribunal has heard.
Former Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee John McGuinness has been giving evidence about Sergeant McCabe’s and Martin Callinan’s dealings with him and the PAC in 2013 and 2014.
The Tribunal has heard that there are irreconcilable accounts of a meeting in a hotel car park between John McGuinness and Martin Callinan on January 24, 2014.
John McGuinness said malicious rumours about Maurice McCabe were doing the rounds of Leinster House in 2013 and 2014, but he chose to ignore them – having met the whistleblower and finding him credible regarding the quashing of penalty points which the Public Accounts Committee was to look into.
The Tribunal heard that Commissioner Callinan sought and failed to have documents returned to him as he believed they breached data protection acts.
In January 2014, following a robust hearing of the PAC with the Garda Commissioner when he referred to the actions of whistleblowers as ‘disgusting’, Deputy McGuinness says Martin Callinan referred to whistleblower John Wilson ‘pulling a knacker off a horse’ on Grafton St and said Maurice McCabe fiddles with kids, going on to say, ‘that’s the type of f-ing headbangers I’m dealing with’.
The following day, Deputy McGuinness says he met with Commissioner Callinan in a hotel car park when he told him Sgt McCabe had sexually abused his own family and was not to be trusted, and that he had made a grave error calling him before the Public Accounts Committee.
In a statement to the Tribunal, former Commissioner Callinan agrees the meeting took place but says he only raised his concerns about data protection, and that it was John McGuinness who brought up Maurice McCabe’s motivation.
Mr McGuinness said that he later met with Supt Taylor and his wife Michelle in the Skylon Hotel in January 2017, when the superintendent was suspended from duty. Mr McGuinness said he found the superintendent quite distressed over his treatment, and worried for his family.
In a statement to the tribunal, Supt Taylor said he was "directed to draw journalists' attention to the complaint of sexual assault made against Sgt. McCabe, and that this was the root cause of his agenda, revenge against the Gardaí".
Supt Taylor said that the instructions he received from Commissioner Callinan were "always verbal".
"When I met Supt Taylor he presented as a man completely devastated by the way he was being treated," Mr McGuinness said.
Mr McGuinness said that the treatment of Supt Taylor "had a similar ring to it to the way Sgt McCabe had been treated, and others".
Mark Harty SC, on behalf of former garda John Wilson, said that the incident with a horse happened in 1983 shortly after Grafton Street was pedestrianised, and he took the animal into custody because it was being mistreated.
Mr Calllinan and Garda Wilson were based in the same station at the time, which was how the commissioner knew about the incident.
Mr Harty said his client had acted properly on the occasion, when he saw an animal mistreated.
"I never questioned John Wilson, I considered him to be an honourable individual," Mr McGuinness said.
Micheál P O'Higgins, acting for An Garda Siochana and Mr Callinan, said that the former commissioner had made it clear that he "fundamentally disagreed" with how Sgt McCabe disclosed individuals' personal and confidential data to the Public Accounts Committee.
Mr O'Higgins said that as a politician, Mr McGuinness would be aware that criticising Sgt McCabe was not a popular thing to do.
"Your own popularity is what you keep an eye on," Mr McGuinness said.
Mr McGuinness said that the issue for the Oireachtas committee was not popularity, but whether they could legally accept documents from Sgt McCabe.
"We took our separate legal advice, and we were led by that legal advice," Mr McGuinness said. As a result, information in the documents was redacted, and Sgt McCabe gave his evidence in private.
Mr McGuinness said that Sgt McCabe had answered questions from every member of the committee, and had not named any persons in his answers.
By Juno McEnroe
Former Public Accounts Committee chairman John McGuinness has described how "malicious" rumours were circulating around Leinster House about garda whistleblower Sgt Maurice McCabe.
These included false allegations that he was involved in issues around sexual abuse and that he was a paedophile, McGuinness said.
Mr McGuinness has told the Disclosures Tribunal this morning that there was a deliberate effort to try and stop the penalty points investigation at the time of the rumours. Sgt McCabe's concerns about the garda penalty points system were later justified.
This included "malicious" rumours about Sgt McCabe.
The Disclosures Tribunal is examining whether there was an effort to discredit Sgt McCabe by the force and others.
Under questioning by Patrick Marrinan for the tribunal, deputy McGuinness outlined the background to the rumours going around Kildare Street leading into January 2014.
“If you wanted to step into Leinster House in the corridors, you could listen to as much as that rumour as you wanted to” the Fianna Dail TD told the tribunal.
Mr McGuinness described how he went to meet Sgt McCabe and confront him about the rumours.
He said he had to find out whether they were true to not.
The garda whistleblower told the TD that he was aware of the rumours and denied they were true.
Mr McGuinness said he found Sgt McCabe to be "honest", a "straightforward individual", proud of the uniform he wore and determined to try and do the right thing.
The tribunal continues to hear evidence today.
