Gardaí not prompted to be aggessive in interviews, Tribunal told
A former superintendent today denied gardaí had ever been encouraged to step outside the rules by using aggressive interview techniques to break people down in custody.
John McGinley, who retired after being singled out for criticism in a report from the Morris Tribunal, said Det Sgt John White had not been given instructions to engage in tough interviews to unearth details of cattle dealer Richie Barron’s death.
“There was no instructions given to anybody to go outside the just treatment of persons in custody regulations, or Criminal Justice Act of ’84, in any shape or forms,” he said.
“These structures are in place to ensure that such abuses don’t happen, I am disappointed and saddened that it did happen, as alleged, I think that is why the members in charge and those people are there to ensure that those things don’t happen.
“However, if two people go into an interview room and do something such as that there is very little that anybody can do about it at the time.”
The Morris Tribunal is currently hearing evidence over the detention of two Donegal sisters in Letterkenny Garda Station on December 4, 1996 in relation to the death of Mr Barron.
Three officers – Det Gda John Dooley, Det Sgt John White and Gda Joan Gallagher – are accused of intimidating Roisin McConnell and Katrina Brolly while investigating the whereabouts of Mrs McConnell’s husband Mark, who was wrongly accused of being involved in his death.
Gda Dooley and Det Sgt White have admitted mistreating the two women in custody and have apologised for the hurt and pain they caused.
The tribunal has heard the women were shown graphic pictures of the dead man, lights were flicked and they were told their children would be taken away by social services.
Sgt White, who is currently suspended from the force, has claimed in the tribunal that Det Supt Joe Shelly and Det Supt McGinley, who was an inspector at the time, had told him to break Mrs Brolly down in a strident and aggressive interview to get the truth from her.
The retired detective superintendent denied telling Sgt White to break the interviewee down.
Mr McGinley told the tribunal: “In so far as I am concerned he didn’t receive any instructions from me to behave in an illegal or an unlawful fashion or to treat anybody other than with respect and dignity and in accordance with the regulations.”
Sgt White has told the tribunal the same interview techniques were widely used in the force for serious crime investigations.
Mr McGinley said: “I have worked in Co Louth, I worked in Dublin, Galway, Mayo, Roscommon and Clare and he is speaking for himself. It is not widespread. What he suggests is completely wrong and completely contrary to the regulations and the laws and garda training on the matter.”
Under cross-examination, Mr McGinley said no instruction, that he was aware of, was given to anybody to use photographs during the interviews.
“I think it would be completely inappropriate. I don’t think any interviewee should be shown photographs of a dead person, of a deceased person, certainly not post-mortem photographs. That would be completely inappropriate for any purpose,” he said.
Mr McGinley told the tribunal the photographs were removed to the interview room in a covert fashion which showed it was not sanctioned by senior gardai in charge of the investigation.
